Comments on: What the F*ck is Zwarte Piet?

By: Tha God U C

Tha God U C — Mon, 02 Jan 2012 18:32:41 +0000

If the white man had never asked for slaves in the first place and manipulated blacks into even more disunity, then we probably wouldn’t have this conversation now. White are haters and think their way is superior, and read your history books if you don’t believe it. It doesn’t matter which one either. I know that guilt be bothering whites, that whys they so quick to say “Now wait a minute!, It isn’t my fault!” I say your right, because it was your ancestors. Yet you live peaceful now because of what they did in the past. Enough said.

By: Bewildered

Bewildered — Thu, 22 Dec 2011 19:32:12 +0000

I’m from Quebec, living in the US and can tell you that in the US, the topic of race – especially black and white relations – has become so tinged with politics and political agendas that it is impossible to have a sane conversation about black and white depictions. Everything is racist towards blacks and every word has hidden meaning that discriminates against blacks. Case in point: there is neverending grievances levied against the bad white men who made Africans slaves but never about the bad African who hunted fellow Africans and traded their fellow Africans to the bad white men for money and to make their fellow Africans their own slaves.

Would making St Nick black and Pete white solve the problem??

By: Scripts

Scripts — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 17:47:53 +0000

We have an old story (I’m Flemish btw) in which Saint Nicholas had Saint Nicodemus as a helper. To make sure no-one would recognise him, Nico painted his face completely black. Of course, like mentioned before, that doesn’t explain the wig and lips and everything, that’s true. I do think that all of us understand that in truth Pete is a representation of a black person in a way that was, erm, ‘popular’ (?) back in the days and that all these changes can’t just happen by jumping through a chimney. Then again the story of the chimney is there to tell the children, to keep things mystified a bit. If we tell others that Pete is black because of his job, it’s only because that is what we tell the children, it doesn’t mean however that we aren’t aware of other things going on. In 1992 there were still schools teaching the kids that Zwarte Piet was black because he simply was a black person and they’d be happy with that too. But that’s not the discussion is it?

The problem here is of a whole different level: adults seeing signs because of their own history, of what they have seen, learned, experienced. If someone that has been celebrating Sinterklaas many years and has loved the tradition so very much is being told that the tradition is actually wrong, that an aspect of it is racist and thus by connotation just plain evil and should be altered or completely abolished, the person will probably not welcome that vision with open arms. And of course if a person just LOVES something, he or she will have lots of trouble to understand WHY someone else wouldn’t. Then you can link to origins and other obvious things all you want to try and prove a point, the other person will only feel personally offended (and of course that goes both ways).

Changing the colour of the Pieten won’t make things better. Then some ask: what’s wrong with black? Isn’t black good enough for you? The Smurf idea could possibly result in law suits in all sorts of ways (or at least a lot of angry people in at least 2 European countries, possibly a 3rd should the BBC hear about it). In short: there isn’t a quick solution that would make everybody happy.

I really hope we won’t be somehow forced into throwing Sinterklaas out and going for Santa instead. I mean, we’ve got 3 days (where I live, somewhere in Flanders in Belgium) for presents now in December (6th of December: Sinterklaas for the kids, 24-25th of December: presents for, from and with the family on Christmas Eve, small presents for those you didn’t see on Christmas Eve on Newyears Eve). Throwing Sinterklaas and Christmas together would feel a bit… narrow to me? Anyway, ignore that last part, it was pretty much besides the point.

By: Ki2UrEra

Ki2UrEra — Fri, 14 Oct 2011 02:16:56 +0000

I absolutely agree with Benjamin Tompkins when he said

“where does the nappy hair and big red lips come from. It doesn’t make sense are black people considered devils or candy giving slaves or chimney dwelling white people whose hair gets nappy and grow big red lips.”

I have been researching the origin of “Black Pete” and I understand that it is a “tradition” but it is based on racism.

I think that they could make it less racist by simply changing the color and name of Pete. How about making all of the characters white? The smurf idea sounds good too

By: Pedro De Negro

Pedro De Negro — Mon, 27 Dec 2010 05:30:59 +0000

The true reality of this story is that Black Pete, who comes in on a ship from spain and who was seen as being a devil who had been conquered; is in actual fact, a portrayal of Pedro De Negro ( Peter The Niger or Nigger or Black)(for the record I am a Black Man from the UK, who does a lot of travelling). Black Pete, who was Colombus’ captain of the second ship of his fleet, was responsible for the survival of Colombus when he came across what is now known today as the Caribbean today gained the name West Indies because he was lost and thought he had come full circle around India. Pedro De Negro save teh lives of the flee when they came ashore, by simply possesing a spear made of four different metals. The tribesman of these lands whose ancestors possessed spears similar, as they had all decended or ascended from the continent of Africa, recognised the spear and fed the starving crew members of the fleet….to their untimate peril. However, when colombus whose uniform and preferred clothing were Red & White, would visit neighbouring shores, he was known to have slaves and companions of the African continent & Molatoes (Those of Mixed Heritage), from the many years at sea and the raping of the slaves; when he would reach these shores, it was customary to bestow gifts upon the Royal and Political Housesholds. He would then bestow gifts upon the masses as a way to gain his approval and to be welcomed on every journy that they would make to those shores. All of this is documented and can be found in the very logs kept by colombus. I do not recall the name of it, but I covered this topic in History, many years ago. A little research as to the name of the log and a litle understanding of spanish or english tranliterations will enable the seekers of truth to find and comfirm what I have said, with ease.

Always respect this garden called earth and everryone and everything which it blooms. RESPECT & LOVE.

By: Jomar

Jomar — Sat, 25 Dec 2010 04:52:56 +0000

Well first of all i live in the Netherlands and am from African descent who grew up with this Racist tradition, this ritual is done every year as a reminder to little kids that the white man is good because he is the one baring gifts and the black man is bad because of punishing approach,what we have to focus on is the psychological affect it has on kids, teaching them to fear and resent black people from small they get that indoctrinated, and they still wondering why people cant come together, from small i heard this story and grew up with it, and at the celebration period i never liked the idea at all, the island where am from better said the hood where am from those young boys cant come around with there face painted, black people who grew up in this culture do feel like there is something wrong with the picture, some do but at the same time they want to brush it off with some liberal jive, acting like nothing wrong, wanting to show white people i digg you with this racist nonsence,whenever the ship comes in with sint in holland if you look at the crowed you can count the black dots in between, and there’s much more black people around, so this show that black people dont dig this shit, otherwise they would embrace it even more than whites do,its just that black people dont want to complain, and afraid to be seen a bigget!!! Bottom line its racist and offensive

By: Mel

Mel — Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:23:43 +0000

I am a Canadian and I believe if it is a problem then it is a Dutch problem. Not America’s problem, they (American’s) really got to stop telling the rest of the world what is right and what is wrong. Fix your own problems first. I for one, regardless of the right history think that the positive spin placed on the tradition is wonderful and I agree that for children they only see the fun in it all.

By: admin

admin — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 20:05:06 +0000

There’s nothing invalid about our research, Tenken. Given the above commentary, it confirms that “for Americans, Black Pete hits a nerve that brings back the days of Black Face Minstrel”. We also wrote this article after spending months living in the Netherlands and speaking about it with a variety of locals. As travelers, our goal is to create material that inspires travel with an open mind. Talking about this subject explores culture shock and ego-centrisism, should we protest Zwart Piet all together before exploring it for ourselves? should we not try to consider another point of view? If it is racist, should we not discuss it?

By: tenken

tenken — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 06:02:18 +0000

@admin
Next time do a better research !!!
I live on Dutch a colony and there is still big discussion about this. Its very disturbing .

By: tenken

tenken — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 05:51:41 +0000

Im from the Netherlands (Dutch kingdom).
The origen of the Piet is racist.
According to myths dating to the beginning of the 19th century, Saint Nicholas (Sinterklaas) operated by himself or in the companionship of a devil. Having triumphed over evil, it was said that on Saint Nicholas Eve, the devil was shackled and made his slave. A devil as a helper of the Saint can also still be found in Austrian Saint Nicholas tradition in the character of Krampus.
Zwarte Piet originally was such an enslaved devil forced to assist his captor, but the character emerged in the 19th century within the Netherlands as a companion of Saint Nicholas resembling a Moor.
A Dutch racist named Jan Schenkman created the Piet in 1845 for his children book.